Toby Call - Innovative Pharmaceutical Research in Microgravity
In this episode, we talk to Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth.
We discuss his journey into space biotechnology, innovative pharmaceutical research in microgravity, the current state of the European space industry, bioregenerative life support systems for long-duration space travel, and how these technologies could help optimise life on Earth.
Find Out More: https://www.massbalance.bio
-
Transcript
00:00:02 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Welcome to the Mission Sessions podcast by Stratospheric.io.
00:00:05 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
In this episode, we talk to Toby Cool, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced medicines in orbit rather than on Earth.
00:00:15 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
We discuss his journey into space biotechnology, innovative pharmaceutical research in microgravity, the current state of the European space industry,
00:00:23 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
bioregenerative life support systems for long duration space travel and how these technologies could help optimize life on Earth.
00:00:40 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Hey Toby, thank you so much for joining our podcast.
00:00:42 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Hopefully you're enjoying some decent weather up in Cambridge.
00:00:46 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
But to kick us off, could you give us a concise one minute introduction to yourself please?
00:00:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, absolutely.
00:00:52 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, so my name's Toby, I'm CEO and co-founder of Mass Balance.
00:00:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I am someone who really wants to do whatever I can to help humanity survive the next 1000 years in good shape.
00:01:06 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I have a background in health tech, biotech, biochemistry, also strong connections in the space industry.
00:01:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And yeah, I would see myself as a very much a deep generalist trying to enact change for good.
00:01:19 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Very cool.
00:01:19 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
That's probably one of the best introductions I think I've heard in our kind of last few months of podcasting.
00:01:24 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I love the mission approach to what your work's doing.
00:01:28 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Just before we dive into that a little bit more, can you give us your perspective on the current state of the European space industry?
00:01:35 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, European space industry.
00:01:39 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Europe has a long history of space tech development with many interplanetary missions, some serious agency work from the European Space Agency, UK Space Agency, and others, and the French Space Agency.
00:01:53 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's no secret that it has often played second fiddle to NASA and other agencies.
00:02:00 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We're seeing, I'd say, I'd love to say a resurgence in
00:02:05 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
tech, especially enabled by commercialization of space.
00:02:08 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So what the kind of initiatives that would have been agency driven efforts now find customers and investors and very driven tech founders to try and solve these problems.
00:02:22 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
There's always the issue of do we have enough money going towards the big problems that the big kind of
00:02:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
solutions and highways to space, et cetera, that the likes of SpaceX have built.
00:02:36 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But Europe is and will be for a long time, hopefully forever, one of the best kind of sources and founding grounds for deep tech.
00:02:49 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And that has huge impacts on space applications.
00:02:53 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:02:54 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah.
00:02:54 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And just for the audience here, we're recording in the aftermath of the SpaceX
00:02:59 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
IPO at the end of last week, which touched on, I think, just went high up almost to 2 trillion.
00:03:06 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And so I'm not sure about how you're experiencing it, Toby, but I certainly kind of felt an online resurgence in interest in space tech, particularly with the movement towards a European sovereignty.
00:03:18 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And our sister podcast talks about that from a defense perspective.
00:03:24 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
under a very different lens.
00:03:26 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, I mean, have you kind of have you felt the same that same kind of movement towards space, I guess, in this last last six months or so?
00:03:33 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Have you have you have you just it's been flat for you?
00:03:36 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What's the how have you found it?
00:03:38 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Well, in terms of space sovereignty and where the world is moving there.
00:03:42 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I think probably like a space interest in space as a kind of like as a domain.
00:03:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, I mean, so my interest in space goes back
00:03:53 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
many, many years before SpaceX became cool.
00:03:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And they were pretty cool, actually.
00:03:59 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So I remember I did a course called the International Space University back in 2015.
00:04:04 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Oh, wow.
00:04:05 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
The only biologist on that course.
00:04:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And no, I think that SpaceX was very cool.
00:04:10 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I think that's when they landed their first rocket, which was very, very cool.
00:04:15 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Or no, it was topical.
00:04:18 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so I've been watching the space industry evolve for the past, 10 plus years.
00:04:24 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And it's only in the last couple of years where applications like biology, data centers, et cetera, are conceivable and possible as business models.
00:04:36 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And what's so interesting is just to see the human psychology of, you know, especially some of the legacy providers, the Airbuses, et cetera, or the Arianes who
00:04:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
laughed at SpaceX for a long time.
00:04:50 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah.
00:04:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Love him or hate him, but credit to Elon for keeping pushing and showing how it's done.
00:04:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And now it's just probably the most, you know, civilizational defining technology and company that will shape the next few decades.
00:05:11 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:05:12 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah.
00:05:12 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, I'm sure I'm probably not the only person here who's interested to hear more about the space university at some point.
00:05:17 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So I hope we do get a loop back around to that because I think I probably were the few people who'd be looking at my second master's and thinking, is there any way I can apply this to space technology?
00:05:27 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And that's ergonomics and human factors.
00:05:29 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I'm sure there's probably somewhere where I can fit it in, but I didn't realise it was a space university.
00:05:34 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So I'm definitely going to bend your ear on that later on if that's okay.
00:05:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's actually going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment in terms of the organization and its funding and all that kind of stuff.
00:05:49 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
However, the community that it's created is the single strongest international network I've ever experienced or ever seen.
00:05:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's literally half the space industry I've been through from every country.
00:06:00 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Oh, wow.
00:06:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so it's a phenomenal organization.
00:06:04 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's played a big part in a lot of people's careers, including mine.
00:06:08 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Fascinating.
00:06:09 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
We're going to jump online and find some more about that afterwards, for sure.
00:06:13 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
But okay, so we'll get on to our really important question.
00:06:17 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I want to talk about mass balance and what problems are aiming to solve with the space sector, because this sounds super interesting.
00:06:24 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I'm glad you were able to join the podcast today to talk more about it.
00:06:28 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So Mass Balance is not a space company and that's one of the things.
00:06:33 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's kind of hammer home.
00:06:35 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We are a company that uses space and that is very important because that's how the market takes you seriously.
00:06:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Even though personally I am super interested in space and the idea of using biotech in space for so many things we can go into is probably be my life's mission.
00:06:54 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And
00:06:55 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But if you want to sell to pharma, in our case, they don't give a damn about space.
00:07:02 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
They honestly, I can give, they don't care.
00:07:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So you need to show them that space is boring.
00:07:11 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So ultimately, our mission is to make space boring, just another environment, just another kind of logistics challenge that happens to enable the use of novel physics and microgravity.
00:07:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
that we use to unblock sort of major unmet needs in drug discovery.
00:07:30 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Fascinating.
00:07:31 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And I'm just making some more notes here because so on the websites at the moment and it highlights obviously the use of microgravity to make the unmakeable and make the unmakeable and drug the undruggable.
00:07:43 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Are you able to kind of elaborate a little bit more on that?
00:07:46 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
You know, what does what does?
00:07:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, so
00:07:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Proteins.
00:07:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We are the space protein company.
00:07:54 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Why is that relevant?
00:07:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Because it turns out that the physics of microgravity are very amenable and useful for dealing with complex nanostructures in a way.
00:08:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And we've seen this proven out and demonstrated
00:08:12 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
from decades and decades of research from the Mir space stations and shuttle to ISS for application, which is protein crystallization.
00:08:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And there are actually several well-funded companies building out that application.
00:08:27 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
What that enables for pharma is a really kind of end stage
00:08:31 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
reformulation of drugs that are in market already, or the initial applications were actually growing larger protein crystals to get structures.
00:08:38 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But now people are trying to use it for reformulating drugs for patent extension, things like that.
00:08:46 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
The same physics that enables that we are using for other aspects of drug discovery.
00:08:52 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So back further upstream, looking at can we take
00:08:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
huge areas of proteins I'll go into in a sec that are basically intractable drug targets that, behind Alzheimer's and many cancers with no way of drugging.
00:09:09 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And today's advanced AI models, we've all heard of AlphaFold.
00:09:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
There are other ones who are equally impressive.
00:09:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
They literally cannot see this class of proteins.
00:09:18 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's one of the biggest unmet kind of
00:09:20 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's not even spoken about because it's such a big problem.
00:09:23 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
You talk to a lot of researchers and they're like, no one's going to solve this for a while.
00:09:27 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Really?
00:09:28 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah.
00:09:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so what we were quite keen to do is not, is to try and demonstrate an application like gravity that isn't just this kind of 10% incremental gain, you know, because conceptually it's a lot of people going to space is a bit of a bit of a jump, even though it's not as hard as you might think at the moment.
00:09:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So
00:09:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We were very keen to, we thought long and hard about, okay, how can we find an area that is a real zero to 1 unlock in terms of capability to build new medicines and provide new kinds of data, which is key in the kind of AI data centric times that we're in.
00:10:08 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Many companies are hungry for new sources of data.
00:10:11 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so we're basically able to take a fresh look and shine a new light on what's been called the dark proteome, essentially, because it's just been undruggable by traditional means.
00:10:22 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, fascinating.
00:10:23 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I don't want to kind of jump too much on the AI bandwagon.
00:10:26 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Presumably, AI has played a part in this in helping to kind of highlight space as a vehicle for finding these new proteins or reforming these protein structures as you mentioned earlier.
00:10:40 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Was that the case or was it, did you have like a chance encounter with a space physicist in a bar and he said, you know, he or she said, you know, actually what you should be thinking about is
00:10:51 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
doing this in space?
00:10:52 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What was the journey like?
00:10:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Gosh, the journey.
00:10:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So, if I start my personal journey into space biotech, take a kind of like right from the beginning kind of approach.
00:11:09 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So I was always in my PhD and was really interested in biomanufacturing and using biotechnology for kind of industrial purposes.
00:11:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And
00:11:20 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
one of the biggest kind of unsolved kind of technical challenges for human space exploration and basically anyone travelling for any extended period of time outside of our biosphere to the rest of the universe, which let's face it, like we're going to do and it's like as a calling for, I love to climb mountains and sail across the oceans like it's happening, is taking the wonderful things that our biosphere does for us
00:11:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
with us.
00:11:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And the term for that is bioregenerative closed-loop life support systems, which is a kind of long-winded way of saying essentially productizing the ecosystem services that we take for granted.
00:12:05 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So that would be waste regeneration.
00:12:08 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So what comes out has to go in eventually, right?
00:12:12 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Except we don't think about that because we have a planet and ecosystem and
00:12:17 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
oceans to perform those biological processes.
00:12:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
What if you took those and you condensed those into technology and you put them all in a room and essentially that room for a subset of human, for a couple of humans who are in it could be completely independent of the outside world for food, air generation, nutrient cycling, all that kind of stuff.
00:12:41 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So that was a kind of initial real fascination and still I think is a huge unmet need
00:12:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
would be amazing if someone can freely solve it.
00:12:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Actually, the Chinese are ahead.
00:12:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
NASA's now launching up, realized they had like 15 years of stagnation and letting this slide.
00:12:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But think of it in terms of like a resilience setting, somewhere like an island nation like the UK being, having these kinds of technology, maybe don't need the closed, full closed loop, you know, to live on Earth because we've got air and everything.
00:13:09 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And shoring up food supply chains in being much more efficient, harnessing energy from wastewater, you know, there's so many applications.
00:13:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
of having a kind of big research stream.
00:13:18 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And I nearly, nearly, nearly got Aria to, or nearly became one of the party directors of Aria in order to have a large pot of money to go after this.
00:13:28 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So that was my first kind of rule, you know, about three years ago that happened.
00:13:34 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And I was like, okay, right, didn't quite get that.
00:13:37 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Let's go venture and really build this out because this is what I believe in.
00:13:40 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And whereas the markets at is in pharma.
00:13:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so it was a kind of
00:13:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
step from there saying, okay, how do you go from using those kind of technology, that biotechnology for biopharma applications?
00:13:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And one of the most exciting tools for synthetic biology is precision fermentation.
00:13:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so the making of complex proteins using cells.
00:14:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So precision fermentation is kind of like the tool for synthetic biology.
00:14:03 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's you engineer your cells or your system and you give it an input and it produces that product, you know, given some fancy genetics or enzymes you're able to put in there.
00:14:15 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
what proteins would we want to produce?
00:14:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Okay, that's when it gets to the kind of the physics and the why proteins, because it turns out for a lot of super complex novel drugs that are these kind of franken proteins that people have like amazingly stitched together.
00:14:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Protein engineers are geniuses.
00:14:31 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
These things that are like, you know, very non-natural.
00:14:34 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
They can they can treat cancer, but they're very hard to make because your body's not making these big, huge, bulbous, complicated proteins with bits stuck on and stuff like that.
00:14:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so there's
00:14:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
many cases of, drugs being unmanufacturable because it's just too unstable.
00:14:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
The initial thought was, okay, could we take a subset of those and let's apply new physics to it?
00:14:52 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Let's make them in space.
00:14:53 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Sounds wild, but if you could unblock a drug that could be worth billions, yeah, that's not crazy.
00:14:59 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And by the way, the technology you'll be developing will be essential for humans who want to live on Mars and et cetera, and then the moon and the deep space, which is coming.
00:15:09 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so then, okay, the step from that was that actually
00:15:12 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
our view on biomanufacturing, which is still a kind of sexy word in space, you'll hear space biomanufacturing a lot from agencies, is actually, and that's where I guess the industry is at in terms of, okay, they're trying to figure out where is it going to be a part of that huge, you know, $20 trillion bump of space applications.
00:15:30 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Our view actually is we take a much more pragmatic step back and look at it and say, okay, it's not worth scaling up capabilities until we know what
00:15:40 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
the killer app product is.
00:15:41 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And we actually don't know what that killer product is yet.
00:15:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And that is one of the big kind of elephants of room of space.
00:15:46 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So we think the biggest, most scalable, most impactful thing is actually taking similar physics, looking at proteins, but not proteins we're trying to make to put into people as drugs just yet, but actually proteins that we're trying to target, we're trying to drive cancers, drive Alzheimer's.
00:16:03 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And.
00:16:03 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
They're blockers, right?
00:16:05 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so that essentially is where we can produce a lot of new data on the way these proteins are behaving that is completely new and super, super valuable to unblock this huge unmet need.
00:16:15 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so we're the first company really to kind of go in that direction using microgravity to power novel data atlases and ultimately build new models to drug disease.
00:16:27 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Fascinating.
00:16:28 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, I've got a ton of notes to follow up questions at some point to dive into that.
00:16:32 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, it sounds absolutely brilliant when you think space is a vehicle where actually you're kind of, you're going in, you're using space as a way to highlight new areas for that you could then follow on research, new innovations, new technologies.
00:16:49 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
It's an incredibly cutting edge, kind of bleeding edge idea in which to
00:16:55 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
to generate new data, new ideas, new concepts, which themselves could be spin-off companies, it could be spin-off products.
00:17:01 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I'd imagine its price, you know, a huge amount of things coming off the back of this.
00:17:06 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So
00:17:07 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I'm just going to kind of follow up with another question, just kind of ask how was the journey gone so far?
00:17:11 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Because this sounds like one of the, Christopher Columbus sailing off into the ocean, not knowing when you're going to hit land, when you're going to come back, when you're going to see your partner.
00:17:20 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Again, you know, I realise the metaphor is probably kind of finishes is there, but it sounds like a very expeditionary type of, you know, organisation, lifestyle, business.
00:17:33 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And so it must come with
00:17:35 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
with its own amount of challenges, opportunities, how has it been?
00:17:41 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, I love that analogy because actually there's a, to kind of segue the moment in terms of where the space industry is going now, particularly SpaceX, is that there's a great section in there, there's a little book by Buckminster Fuller, great designer, MS who, called the Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth.
00:18:04 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And he talks about the great pirates of history.
00:18:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And those were people initially, potentially, you could say, there were people who were able to access frames of reference and pastures far beyond what was currently the limits of consciousness.
00:18:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So, you know, back when we had just, we were a bunch of people in villages and the universals down the road.
00:18:30 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
or maybe the next village and that's it.
00:18:32 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But then I guess the Romans came along and their roads suddenly interconnected everything and you could get fairly quickly from A to Z without
00:18:41 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
without too much trouble in between.
00:18:42 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And then someone built sailing ships that could go around the world and the Columbuses, the Drakes, et cetera, for all the ills that may have come off that they were accessed, new realms were able to exploit, these regions and outsized influence and power and the railways as well and air travel and space travel, who has access to the highways to vast realms that no one else does?
00:19:09 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
That is
00:19:10 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
where big leaps and bounds in civilization and I guess wealth creation and progress can be made.
00:19:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So yeah, I think it's.
00:19:20 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Interesting.
00:19:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Sorry, a bit of a segue there, but yeah.
00:19:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
What was your question again?
00:19:29 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
How's the journey gone?
00:19:31 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, journey for me.
00:19:34 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It was, it has been difficult, but then again, I don't view what we're doing as that out there.
00:19:45 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's
00:19:46 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
To be honest, it's space is low Earth orbit is not new at all.
00:19:51 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Know how to do it, know how to get there.
00:19:54 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's just the question of volume and industrialization that's changing.
00:19:58 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So in my mind, what we're doing is actually, you know, fairly mundane, actually.
00:20:05 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Out there, we've got ideas.
00:20:06 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
OK, maybe let's say biotech to Terraform.
00:20:10 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I don't know, Titan or something.
00:20:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Now we're talking, now we're talking, let alone Mars.
00:20:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Mars, yeah, we know enough about Mars.
00:20:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But in terms of, yeah, the public perception of space, there's still this, you know, whole space.
00:20:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It does have this kind of like sex appeal to it and the shiny quality, which is very exciting to talk about, but also leads to some skepticism.
00:20:34 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so that's why I say we just make space boring and mainstream and boring.
00:20:37 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And thanks to SpaceX IPO and other events, like it's definitely becoming mainstream.
00:20:43 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And the boring bit is coming.
00:20:46 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
That comes with just routine use and people's consciousness of how often it's used, like for communication, obviously like Starlink and everything.
00:20:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
and travel and GPS, people still unaware like every day we have to use space.
00:21:00 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We touch every single day.
00:21:04 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And yeah, the journey has been interesting.
00:21:10 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We're fundraising at the moment.
00:21:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
very much want to build this as a UK HQ company.
00:21:18 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
My co-founder will be in the UK, but currently we have strong ties to India, to Bangalore, which actually has an ecosystem, I think I could talk about a bit, is super interesting and exciting.
00:21:30 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And I think will become one of the places to go for anything like gravity in space.
00:21:35 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We have a huge biopharma industry as well.
00:21:37 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Because yeah, a lot of roads kind of
00:21:39 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
gravity keeps pulling you to the US, which we'll see what happens.
00:21:43 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, I was going to say that's what I guess that's one of the more challenging kind of spaces due to the amount of capital attraction or capital allocation, the opportunities there.
00:21:52 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I wonder is how is the gravity kind of like kept you kind of in the European market and resisting the US market or is it kind of like pulling you in two different directions?
00:22:06 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, I mean, you can't lie, you can't deny the sheer kind of network velocity and capital availability in places like San Francisco.
00:22:17 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
That's always going to be very hard to compete with.
00:22:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
On the positive side for saying in London, I mean, I also am from London, born here, so I think it's the best city in the world.
00:22:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But we do have some of the top talent here.
00:22:32 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's a lot cheaper over here than the US.
00:22:35 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We have increasing access to capabilities like launch many European space enabling companies.
00:22:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So not just the rockets, but the people who build the satellite buses and work with rockets that, for us are part of that kind of rapidly commoditizing supply chain.
00:22:54 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And we'll soon have, hopefully,
00:22:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
a European sovereign launch with the likes of ISAR, get off the ground and hopefully that will be soon in their second launch, which unfortunately, yeah, as you say, got scrubbed last night, and also being in London, it's literally the gateway to East and West.
00:23:12 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So it's much easier to interact with, you know, work literally with India and the country's needs and the States at the same time.
00:23:20 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So yeah, we're very polish on London, but ultimately we are a global company.
00:23:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We operate in space.
00:23:27 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:23:29 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I agree with you on the London side of things, as Nick, it's a great place where actually you're in the US, you're in the US conservative influence of time zone, but then you can just jump on the Eurostar and get into mainland Europe and actually be within the European time zones and almost it's almost a great place, a great middle ground between the European market and the US market in which to kind of that talent density, that capital availability.
00:23:57 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
The real barriers I think is to like is culture when if and when and hopefully when one European continent we're able to kind of systematically dismantle a lot of the kind of inherent culture barriers that we have because we are a lot of different countries.
00:24:15 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's not a you know one country and some countries and institutions love bureaucracy and that's you know call it bureaucracy debt you know that we have.
00:24:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And if you're able to unlock, a culture of unlocking more risk capital, both, early stage were pretty good, but definitely on growth stage, is where we do lack.
00:24:36 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And then markets as well, for example, in our field, European biopharma, if they can buy into space, on massive markets, we'd be huge.
00:24:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So, yeah, huge amount of potential, but yeah, we've got some work to do.
00:24:52 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, fascinating, fascinating.
00:24:53 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
There's definitely a few things I want to touch on there in some of the later questions.
00:24:58 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What I'm interested in, what lessons is building mass balance taught you about the space economy?
00:25:02 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Has it taught you, know, kind of where you go for to get things on your radars, on where the kind of the gatekeepers lie, how to make things happen?
00:25:14 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What's the lessons?
00:25:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's just a great industry to work in.
00:25:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
People are exciting.
00:25:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I love working with smart engineers building cool stuff and supply chain, essentially, which is fantastic.
00:25:27 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And obviously, as a potential person, they're all very willing to talk to you.
00:25:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I love those conversations.
00:25:30 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Every conversation we have, I think I learned something new.
00:25:32 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And last week, we spoke to a couple of companies in New Zealand, in India, in the States, across Europe, and it's global.
00:25:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And everyone kind of shares that passion in a way for space, in which a lot of other industries kind of, it's, can be hard to get passionate about IT or fintech.
00:25:54 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Exactly.
00:25:56 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So cyber security, that's what we have.
00:26:00 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And then there's obviously the thing about space is it has this knack of just being a lot bigger than you thought about it.
00:26:08 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And it was being two sides, like a same, just have the same coin as defense.
00:26:12 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And
00:26:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
national security capabilities.
00:26:16 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so it's always a kind of more complex conversation, which is exciting.
00:26:21 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, fascinating.
00:26:23 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah.
00:26:23 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, it gets me into my next question in terms of the kind of the biggest challenge and opportunities in the global space industry at the moment.
00:26:29 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I mean, with the launch of the SpaceX, we had the ISR Aerospace launch, unfortunately scrubbed last night.
00:26:38 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
and now a kind of a race to race for kind of data sovereignty, tech sovereignty across the across the EU.
00:26:45 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What do you see as the, I guess, those main challenges and opportunities right now?
00:26:53 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yes, everything sovereign is now the thing, right?
00:26:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And you kind of wonder, is it like, is it just the kind of sales category fad or is it here to stay?
00:27:04 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And obviously that has a lot of dependency is on geopolitical
00:27:10 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I think where you've got two forces of economic reality and capitalistic outcomes versus long-term governance of countries and kind of your little bit is like kind of like preventive health care where you've got
00:27:30 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
you invest in solutions that might make sense to use one country's solutions because they're just really good.
00:27:37 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
However, there is a chance that you could develop a cancer or anything, but you don't know.
00:27:41 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But right now, it makes real sense to use that service.
00:27:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But what if they change and become less friendly or invest in it?
00:27:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And suddenly, which we've seen with the US government shutting off parts of Anthropic just last week.
00:27:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so that writ large across every industry.
00:28:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
is I think we'll see a kind of redressing or kind of rebalancing from the rise of big tech essentially in the last like 2 decades to govern everything in our lives.
00:28:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So they'll still be there and they'll still get bigger and stronger and more capable than ever.
00:28:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But I do think there'll be a subset of capabilities that most countries will see as like, okay, we need either kind of governance or
00:28:29 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
total control or we must build our own solutions.
00:28:33 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But obviously it does get hard if you can't build your own solutions or they're just not good enough.
00:28:37 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so they do that, okay, do we compete where it's necessary for us to compete, where it's necessary for us to kind of, you know, have that kind of control over, you know, all solutions being used.
00:28:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, I think it seems super interesting.
00:28:49 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I mean, there's going to be a lot of changes.
00:28:52 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:28:52 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
you mentioned earlier about the bureaucracy debt, actually, which is a term I've not heard before, but it's definitely stuck with me.
00:28:57 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I made it made a note of it.
00:28:59 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I can just imagine, obviously, you know, with the likes of the EU and they're currently trying to obviously get this concept of the EU Inc., the single market across the EU, which should hopefully make it easier for companies to scale invest, you know, and also markets to invest pension funds, etcetera, into couple capital projects.
00:29:21 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
encourage that kind of R&D and kind of start to become more of a competing market with the US and Asia so that actually we don't get left too far behind.
00:29:32 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So yeah, it is an interesting time, particularly like following kind of what, everything that's going on with how space connects to other sectors as well.
00:29:41 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So defence, like we mentioned, the future of kind of like technologies depends on sort of geo positioning.
00:29:49 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
data systems available, which, you'd want to have control over, all the time for the likes of smart cities and a lot of other future, kind of sectors as well.
00:30:01 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So it's, there's never a dull moment.
00:30:04 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And I kind of one thing we find, a lot of podcasting and kind of researching these articles actually is just how connected to everything else space is without people thinking, and I'm probably as guilty as anyone else with just associating it with
00:30:17 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Star Trek and space films from the, from the 1990s and how it's kind of all cool innovative thing and without actually realizing how much of my everyday life depends on actually our connection with space.
00:30:29 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So it's been illuminating for me, at the very least.
00:30:34 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, absolutely.
00:30:36 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And yeah, I mean, I see where each country's capability is able to develop capabilities,
00:30:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
that will be kind of a moat and defensive capability.
00:30:46 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But in the UK, we have trouble funding companies or helping companies scale anywhere near what we see in the US.
00:30:58 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I mean, unfortunately, we saw Orbex go under, which is the UK's premier front runner for launch.
00:31:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We have a few more, including Scarora and Astron Systems, who hopefully will make it and hopefully get the right support we need.
00:31:14 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But I do think there is, there are some strong decisions and real commitment that needs to be made from the UK government to help these companies.
00:31:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And if they're deemed critical infrastructure, they need to not fail.
00:31:31 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Which, yeah, I won't comment on politics.
00:31:33 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
That's not my forte or not place for here.
00:31:36 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But you know, the fact that, you know, just now the defence budgets were, you know, what happened with the resignations of
00:31:44 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Mark Healey, et cetera, is not encouraging for the UK.
00:31:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So we kind of, yeah, I guess we're all hoping for something better to happen in there.
00:31:53 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:31:54 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, the defense investment plan is something we've been talking a lot on our sister podcast, the Milux one, and deconstructing kind of what it means.
00:32:02 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
It's become a break for defense SMEs and they're trying to scale up and they're not getting any positive or clear signs from
00:32:12 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
their buyers, their end user, their customer.
00:32:15 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So they kind of then have to start looking outside.
00:32:17 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And then the problem, obviously, with defense tech being too far away from your home market is that people become very wary of it.
00:32:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
No, exactly.
00:32:25 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And dual use is an inherently challenging business model to have, because you essentially need to be in two companies, which with entirely different dynamics.
00:32:32 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so, yeah, I guess, I guess in the UK, we have like a great culture of tech innovation and
00:32:39 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, what I've heard is that we over egg, trying to test out lots of different solutions where we just need to back some women that can't fail and become part of national infrastructure.
00:32:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
But yeah, it's and space.
00:32:53 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
even if it's, commercial launch, that has massive ramifications for, defence security capabilities.
00:32:59 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So there's a lot of crossover there, I think.
00:33:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And very much what we've been trying to do with the other thing I'm doing where we met with our critical mass events is to bring together that wider tech ecosystem through to, you know, saying, okay, defence isn't just this kind of, you know, black box over there that MD take care of.
00:33:17 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's actually a lot most of tech is relevant to door use and resilience.
00:33:22 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah.
00:33:23 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:33:24 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
no, it's been so funny how we kind of defence has become a bit of a segue here, but with defence has kind of been that, person in the room or those people in the room who were post pre-2019, 2020 were, a little bit of the kind of the unwelcome visitors to say, to investment events, for example, where it was all about more about sustainability and then
00:33:46 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
2022 happened, Russian by the Ukraine, and then all of a sudden defence, especially sovereign and European defences, we're not so not so unwelcome anymore.
00:33:56 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Actually, we're kind of encouraged to be in the room with, you know, SMEs, investors, government, you know, end users, et cetera, et cetera.
00:34:03 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
So it's.
00:34:03 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I know it's highly, I mean, every space company building hardware or capability essentially will be
00:34:11 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And if they're not, they should be looking at defence applications until we use pots of money and partnerships, et cetera.
00:34:18 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
For what mass balance is doing, I've actually thought about long and hard, is there an application?
00:34:21 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It's a little bit more of a shoe-in in terms of the drug discovery side of things, but there's certainly applications potentially for on the kind of capabilities that we're developing in bio.
00:34:33 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah.
00:34:34 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Yeah, for sure.
00:34:34 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
You've got me thinking, I think we should get you on the Milux podcast actually, talk about bio-resilience at some point, but I realise we've kind of taken up an hour of your time today, so I'm worried about actually just distracting you too much for work.
00:34:47 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I'll jump on to my final question, if that's okay.
00:34:49 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
What is the what does the future hold for mass balance and the European space sector at large to think?
00:34:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Yeah, we're going to be the ChatGPT for space bio.
00:35:00 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We're going to grow.
00:35:02 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
mega fast produce mega value faster than you thought could have been possible with space.
00:35:07 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I really think it's because the value we generate will be a function of our time and space, essentially, our time and magnet gravity producing those valuable data sets to train the models to unblock diseases.
00:35:23 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
What I'm really excited for as a kind of like, as when we reach this phenotype of company is
00:35:31 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
being a company that is regularly operating in space and it gets very used to space operations, it becomes the bread and butter, it's mundane.
00:35:38 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And we're operating so much that, you know, second order, unknown, unknown applications or capabilities or possibilities present themselves.
00:35:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And, you know, we're able to, as a kind of UK headquartered company, have that presence and help the UK say, you know, we've got, you know, we do stuff a lot in space.
00:36:01 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
with the whole European sector, I think it's there's so much happening that a lot of companies have been founded in the past five, three, five years-ish, and so less than that, and they'll start maturing and applications like
00:36:22 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
rapid re-entry.
00:36:23 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
there are a few UK companies coming out of the woodwork now, but I know the guys at Atmos, for example, very well, who, by the way, they publicly talk about a lot of defence conversations that they have as well, so that everything's two sides for every conversation.
00:36:38 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
They'll start to mature.
00:36:40 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
We'll have capabilities that diversify from just US options, hopefully launches too.
00:36:47 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And hopefully the European Space Agency can continue being a good supporter and funder throughout that.
00:36:52 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And hopefully the UK Space Agency does as well.
00:36:56 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
I would have one recommendation for UKSA though, in terms of a culture, and I think this is a personal opinion.
00:37:03 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
It just comes down to the kind of attitude and culture.
00:37:06 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
And so when you look at, when you speak to people from NASA, it's an engineering culture.
00:37:11 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
people wear engineering polo shirts.
00:37:13 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Steve's rolled up, dive into the physics and maths, the problems, the systems engineering of it.
00:37:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
What I've seen is that, you know, in UK we still love a bit of a suits culture.
00:37:23 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
You know, it's business, it's, you know, politics, it's policy.
00:37:27 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Whereas, you know, the role, my personal opinion is the role of that agency should be very much to dive in and support, you know, at the sharp end, ideally with
00:37:39 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
enough funding not to fail for any other reason than then you can make it work.
00:37:48 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So all the market that you'd have enough money to meet your marketing.
00:37:50 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
So yeah.
00:37:53 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Fascinating.
00:37:54 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Thank you so much for the insights and particularly for personal thoughts as well.
00:38:00 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
That's super appreciated.
00:38:02 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
And I realise we've taken up almost an hour of your time now, so I should really let you get back on to the rest of your day.
00:38:07 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I was just going to say.
00:38:09 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Thank you very much for joining us.
00:38:10 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
I really appreciate it and wish you the very best of luck.
00:38:13 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
We'll check in maybe six months, a year's time and get you back on the podcast if that's okay and see how you're getting on.
00:38:19 Toby Call, founder of Mass Balance, a space biotechnology company focused on manufacturing advanced biologic medicines in orbit rather than on Earth
Fantastic and fingers crossed I'll launch in a few weeks ago as well.
00:38:22 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
It was really great chatting with Toby about his company and the future of space biotechnology.
00:38:27 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Want to hear more about them?
00:38:28 Website Developer, Communications Specialist and Brand Designer at HIATUS _ Design and Communications For Strategic Industries
Check out the show notes below and we'll see you next time.
